Fall 2007 LA C-14 October Exchanges

On Oct 29 Alasdair Wilkins wrote:

Here are more concise versions of the [Red Sox baseball calls]. I'll provide the context necessary in the order in which they happened, although I must admit "kleos" is by far my favorite and the showman in me kind of feels it should be listened to last.

"Kleos"
Context: Tied 14-14, Harvard uses freshman quarterback Collier Winters to run the ball in from about twenty yards out for a touchdown. This is the third rushing touchdown by a Harvard quarterback today.

"Therapon"
Context: Commenting on the fact that quarterbacks have scored all four rushing touchdowns today, I note how they have essentially taken the place of the running backs today.

"Nostos"
Context: This is the final game of three consecutive Harvard home games, all of which Harvard has won. All in all, a very successful homecoming.

I'm glad you've enjoyed these clips as much as I've been enjoying the class.

All the best,
Alasdair Wilkins

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Alasdair,

Thank you for letting Sally share with me! And I leap at your generous offer of editing the sequence for us.

Yours, with admiration,
GN

On Oct 29, Natasha Bershadsky wrote:

Dear Greg,

I was in Woods Hole this weekend, and saw there a memorial to a woman, Neilie
Anne Heffernan Casey, who died in one of the planes on September 11th. I am not
sure whether it would be appropriate to use this for the “Heroes” – too
personal, too recent, too painful? – but looking at her tombstone I had an
uncanny (and nearly awkward in its intensity) feeling of seeing the themes we
talk about in the “Heroes” played out, seemingly spontaneously, before my eyes.
The tombstone is situated on a cliff overlooking the harbor – now called “Neilie
point” – just below Nobska lighthouse, in a quiet spot amid the vegetation
covering the cliff. The cliff was chosen because it juts out over the beach
where Neilie and her husband were engaged, and where they took their wedding
pictures. I quote the words of one of the visitors to an internet site
dedicated to the memories of the September 11 victim, who, speaking about the
Neilie Point, remarks “how absolutely beautiful that spot" is.

Here is the poem that is etched on the bronze plaque of the tombstone:

Neilie Anne Heffernan Casey
November 30, 1968 -- September 11, 2001

we love our gorgeous goddess
with her dreamy red hair
sweetly together with cool boy
in a delirious symphony of love
their diamond moment by the sea

Inspired by the wedding of Neilie & Mike
September 21, 1996

The way the words are presented (with breaks between the morphemes) makes the
poem look as a piece of a “magnetic poetry,” a poem that somebody put together
on a kitchen fridge under the spur of the moment (see the attached photograph).
And then this passing moment of hõra, the moment of the wedding celebration, is
freeze-framed and made perpetual on a tombstone overlooking the sea, so that
the words of the homespun poem that would be a sentimental exaggeration applied
to a living person suddenly fit the woman who had grown in size after her death.

Image 1 Image 2 Image 3

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=22
http://www.voicesofsept11.org/dev/memorials.php?mem_id=224

yours,
Natasha

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Natasha and hi to all,

My instincts tell me that we should go ahead and share this in the discussion section.

Gratefully,
Greg

On Oct 24 Katherine Rippe wrote:

Hi Professor Nagy,

Your lecture today on "le beau mort" reminded me of the French painter Jacques-Louis David, in particular his piece Death of Marat. A lot of his pieces actually elicit a classical feeling or allude to specific ancient Greek events, such as The Intervention of the Sabine Women and The Lictors Bring to Brutus the Bodies of His Sons. This just struck me and I wanted to share it with you!

Thank you,
Katherine

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Katherine,

A beautiful observation! May I post this exchange on the Heroes website?

Hopefully,
GN

On Oct 23 Natasha Bershadsky wrote:

Dear Greg,

I am sending you the ending of a poem by Evgeny Baratynsky (a contemporary of Pushkin), which seems to me to recapture amazingly acutely many of the themes of the recognition scene between Odysseus and Laertes. The poem describes the poet's visit to a park of the family estate where he was growing up. The place is in ruins (the poem is called "Desolation"), it is late fall, he cannot recognize anything that was preserved in his childhood memories, until (here the part I am sending you starts) he becomes aware of the presence of his father's consciousness in the surrounding landscape. Baratynsky's father died when the poet was very small, so it's not the memories that come to the surface but rather a mysterious recognition of his absent father -- who has planned and planted the park -- in the nature of the park. One of the particularly beautiful aspects of the poem is that Baratynsky's father is never called such; he is always referred to, opaquely, as "that one," "he," and - in the end - "the shade."

My translation is clumsy, but I wanted to render the poem as literally as possible.

Desolation
E.A. Baratynsky
......
So what, if the past had passed as a flying dream?
You are still beautiful, o overgrown Elisium,
and are full of a powerful
charm for my soul.
The thought, the heart of that one was not cold,
of the one, who, coveting an anonymous bliss,
had shown to these pathways their spontaneous course,
who, inclining his hearing (sluh) to the mysterious hum
of these maples, these oaks, was nourishing
in his soul a sympathetic reflection of it.
His fame (sluh) grew silent long ago around me,
a distant grave had received his ashes,
my memory did not preserve his image,
but here his accessible spirit still lives;
Here I, a companion of reverie and nature,
comprehend him in his entirety,
He surges in me as my inspiration,
He urges me to give fame to woods, valleys, waters;
He persuasively foretells me a country
where I will inherit an unbounded springtime (nesrochnaya vesna),
where I will not notice traces of destruction,
where, in the sweet shade of the unwilting oak groves,
by the unfailing springs
I will meet the shade, sacred for me.

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Natasha,
This is so beautiful. May I ask Mark to post your message on the Heroes site?
Hopefully,
Greg

On Oct 22 Isabel Koster wrote:

Dear Greg,
I was going to send this 15-second cartoon summary of the Odyssey to my section: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3GmNMbuMbc&mode=related&search=
It occurs to me other people might enjoy it as well, especially since it does not appear to feature xxiv.

Best wishes,
Isabel

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear SuperIsabel,

I love this. A fifteen-second masterpiece of compression. A perfect micronarrative. We must share this with the students. Dear Mark, can you post this?

Gratefully,
Greg

On Oct 22 Michael Cupelli wrote:

Hey Sasha,

I was re-reading the part about the death of Patroklos because I wanted to use the armor of Achilles (that Patroklos wears) as an example in my paper. However, I am confused as to whether the Trojans are in fact deceived and believe Patroklos to be Achilles because in Scroll XVI, right under line 540, when referring to the death of Sarpedon, Glaukos says, "Ares has laid him low by the spear of Patroklos." This leads me to believe that they know it not to be Achilles. Let me know how you interpret it.

Thanks,
Mike

Alexander Nikolaev replied:

Dear Michael,

This one is a real toughee. I am cc-ing Prof. Nagy to see what he thinks.

Let's try and see what the text says:
a) the initial plan was certainly to fool the Trojans into thinking he was Achilles (Il., 16, 41-45 = Il., 11, 799-803);
b) the Trojans think at first that he was Achilles: Il. 16, 278-282 ("for they thought the fleet son of Peleus must now have put aside his anger").

However - at 16.423 Sarpedon names him "this man" as is he spoke of a warrior whose identity was unknown to him - he would certainly call Achilles (if the warrior he saw were Achilles) by the name (this was noted by Leonard Muellner). And then there are Glaukos' unexpectedly shrewd words at 16.543 you mentioned ("Ares has laid him low by the spear of Patroklos.").
So there is a problem.

I think, one way of thinking about it is to assume that wearing Achilles' armor is first of all a symbolic gesture for Patroklos. We are never told, was it due to his own excellence or thanks to the powers instilled by Ares (since Patroklos is only shown once as a fierce warrior), but he kills an unprecedented amount of people in this fight (27 is huge even by the Iliad's standards) and he even kills Sarpedon, Zeus' son (!). Now, especially ever since he disregarded Achilles' instructions and reengaged in the siege for the fourth time, the original plan of tricking the Trojans was revolving into Patroklos' personal aristeia (feat of valor). Patroklos' identity becomes of paramount importance for the narrative. So the original "plan" on which the storyline of rhapsody 16 is based is no longer relevant: more important things are going on (recall the whole "ritual substitute" thing from the lecture). Therefore the poet allows Glaukos to say something which seems to be really penetrating, and this is not a slip (as if Homer forgot what his original story was), but an example of artistic mastery.

Summing up: Glaukos' words at 16.543 do not tell us that the Trojans were not misled by Patroklos' armor; the true significance of these words is perhaps that they forestall the revealing of Patroklos' identity below - so they have nothing with the events on the battlefield; while from the viewpoint of the events being depicted the Trojans were in fact fooled into believing that Achilles has cast aside his menis.

But frankly, I am not sure there is a universally acceptable solution. I wish I had a better answer, but you now know yourself - these things can be real hard.

See you tomorrow,
Sasha

P.S. Thanks a lot for the regatta tip - I had guests over and we had good time at the river!
P.P.S. I've been thinking a lot about your inspiring talk of the crew. We should certainly find something for you to work on in this direction

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Sasha and hi to Mike, plus hi to the other TFs,

Wow, this is a very thought-provoking exchange. I like your take a lot, dear Sasha.
The only thing I would add, for now, is that the one piece of Achilles' armor that Patroklos does not take with him as he goes off to fight is the spear of Achilles. And this spear is the only component of Achilles' armor that was not "made in Olympus," that is, acquired by way of his mother's divine interventions. Instead, Achilles inherited his spear from his father, and the "macro-narrator" makes a point of saying that this spear was not taken by Patroklos.

Another possible way of looking at this problem... Maybe we are dealing with a "focalization," that is, where the "macro-narrator" narrates from the standpoint of one of the characters in the narrative ***or vice versa***, where a character speaks from the standpoint of the macro-narrator. If you like, we could ask Mark to post this useful exchange on the Heroes website.

Gratefully,
Greg

On Oct 18 Jonathan Diah wrote:

Hi Mr. Nagy,

I was just thinking about my paper and looking online for some more information on Hoffman, and I discovered that Hoffmann (the writer) sort of coined the word "doppleganger," which indicates that a person has somewhat of a duality. I really want to explore this idea more because I see how it relates to Achilles (romantic singer vs. warrior) and also reflects the connection between him and Patroklus and how they are somewhat a part of each other. However, i am looking for a way to connect this to the opera and was wondering if you had any suggestions. Thanks again!

Jonathan [JJ] Diah

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear JJ,

This is a good lead. When you follow up, make sure you compare specific details with specific details. Move from the specific to the general in your argumentation, not the other way around. Since I think this exchange is a productive one, would you be willing to share it with the whole student body? If so, as I hope, I will ask Mark, our webmaster, to post it.

Warm regards,
GN

One October 17 Anita Nikkanen wrote:

Dear Greg,

A poem that I often think of in context of the Odyssey is Cavafy's 'Ithaca' (among other things, as an example of a reading of the Odyssey), and your discussion of Odysseus' travels as a journey of the soul brought it back to my mind again. In 'Ithaca' the ideas about the journey and also about how it is about the soul are brought to the fore, so I was thinking it might be relevant to us in Heroes. I attached here a document with the original Greek poem and a translation (out of convenience, I took these just from the internet and the URLs are there on the document, but I do have a hard copy of Cavafy's poems in Greek if you are interested). And then, just for fun, here is Sean Connery reading the poem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3n2Ox4Yfk

Best,
Anita

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Anita,
I really enjoyed this. Do you think we could share not only with the TFs, here cc-d, but also with the students? If you agree, we could ask Mark to post.

Gratefully,
Greg

On Oct 16 Brett Harrison wrote:

Hi Professor Nagy,

I thought you might like to have the lyrics to the excerpt that we are singing on Wednesday. This is an excerpt from "The Mother", the second movement of Padraic H. Pearse's Stabat Mater.

Take care,
-Brett Harrison

"I do not grudge them:
Lord I do not grudge
my two strong sons
that I have seen go out
to break their strength and die,
they and a few,
in bloody protest for a glorious thing:
They shall be spoken of among their people,
the generations shall remember them,
and call them blessed,
call them blessed;"

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear wonderful Brett and hi to Tracy and Roberto and Kevin (could you forward my message to them?) plus hi to Sally and to all the TFs, What beautiful lyrics! I'm cc-ing also Mark, our webmaster. May we publish this exchange now, even before the performance on the occasion of the dialogue tomorrow?

Grateful in advance,
GN

Sally Livingston also replied:

Hi everyone,

Just a clarification. Pearse wrote the lyrics (or the poem they are based on) to this piece, but the Stabat Mater was composed by Frank Ferko.

Sally

On Oct 11 Kelly wrote:

Hello Professor Nagy,

My name is Kelly and I'm a sophomore taking your Greek heroes class. I know we went over this in class several times, but I'm still not sure what you mean when you say a hero is "unseasonal." What does it mean for one to be unseasonal? And for Achilles to be unseasonal? My second question is, is death necessary for a hero to obtain kleos? If Achilles had come out of the Trojan War alive, would his "hero-ness" be depreciated?

thank you so much! and see you on monday,
kelly

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Kelly,

I am glad you asked! I introduced the topic of seasonality in Dialogue 00. Have a look again at my notes for that Dialogue, as published on the Heroes website. Then, and this is very important, have a look also at §§105-110 in Introduction 3, "The Epic Hero," which is also on the same website. There I make a specific link between Herakles and Achilles, and this link goes to the heart of your question. Since your question will be most useful to other students as well (I am sure of it!), I would be very grateful if you would say "yes" to my idea of publishing our exchange on the same website. Could you write back to me and make sure you cc Mark, our webmaster?

Warm regards,
GN

On Oct 11 Gianna De Caro wrote:

Dear Professor Nagy,

I am a senior in your Lit Arts C-14 class and I wanted to let you know of art on-campus that may interest you. This past weekend, I visited Harvard's Sackler Museum because they are featuring an exhibition, "Greek Gods in Color." Through the examination of well-preserved statues and using scientific methods such as UV light, they were able to create color reconstructions of many Greek pieces.

It was really breathtaking to see their artistic interpretations and this exhibit is particularly interesting to observe in the context of your class. Many times we connect the Greeks with white marble statues, forgetting how brilliant and colorful the ancient Greek world really was in its detailed depictions of warriors and gods.

If you would like more information, a link to the exhibit can be reached here: http://www.artmuseums.harvard.edu/exhibitions/sackler/godsInColor.html

Sincerely,
Gianna De Caro

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Gianna,

You are our "culture hero" to mention it. I am a big fan of my colleague Professor Ebbinghaus, who has been a key player in putting the exhibit together. May I ask Mark, our webmaster, to publish our exchange? I think that the whole community of Heroes students and TFs will be very grateful to you.

Warm regards,
GN

On Oct 9, Alexander Solomon wrote:

Hi Professor Nagy,

My name is Alexander Solomon, and I'm a junior in your Greek Heroes course. After tonight's screening my mind is rushing with ideas for paper topics, but I thought I'd ask about the one which sticks out most to me currently since you invited us to at the end. I was wondering if the concept of the ritual death could act as a good point of comparison between the Iliad and the Tales of Hoffmann play. In particular, my first thought was the death of Schlemil, which of course has many aspects which resonate with the ritualistic killings of many of the heroes, but upon reflecting further I wondered if in fact the three fates of Hoffmann's three lovers in fact better serves this concept particularly in comparison with Patroklos's death: Olympia is broken and falls apart, just as Achilles' armor falls from Patroklos, (in the original order) Antonia's death follows similar to the way Patroklos is then killed, and finally Giulietta's ultimate fate is to be eternally damned, just as Patroklos's soul (although not yet described) undoubtedly goes to Hades' domain.

The ideas need some further development from a closer reading of the Iliad, as well as a second check of the play since today's conditions made it difficult to do a close reading but I was wondering if this is on the right track to the type of paper you were looking for or if I should go back to the drawing board. Also I was wondering if you had anything in particular you think I should add if it is an appropriate topic, since I think any advice would be helpful since like many others I feel a bit overwhelmed by the content of the two.

Thanks for taking the time,
Alexander

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Alexander,
I think this is a very good start. I like the way you are looking for things to connect. May I share this exchange with the whole community on the heroes website? I think it would be useful for your fellow-students to see what kind of dialogue is taking shape here. If you agree, we can ask Mark to publish this exchange.

My advice is to narrow down your argumentation to one or two details.

The death of Schlemil in the Tale of Giulietta is a handy point of departure. If you choose that detail for comparison, make sure you compare it with some detail in a Homeric death scene - rather than broaden the comparison to a "concept" in Homer, which could easily become too big to handle. I would pick a Homeric death that closely resembles the Schlemil death, featuring details that help understand the two death scenes you are comparing. In the case of Schlemil, a detail to look for is the key that he carries on his person. What lock does this key unlock? Hint: Hoffmann needs to free his reflection from Giulietta's mirror, but where is Giulietta when Hoffmann is looking for her? These are some relevant questions that occur to me. There are many Homeric death scenes where the doomed warrior is described as marked by distinguishing features that resemble Schlemiel's key, no?
So, that is one way to go.

Another way is to focus on the death of one of the three women. I like the idea of comparing the fragmentation of Olympia with the disintegration of Patroklos. In my essay "The Fragmentary Muse," I give many examples of fragmentation and interpret only a few of them. You could interpret one of the others.

So many more things I could say, but I hope this gives you an idea of how you might want to proceed.

I hope you have a good time developing your argument.

Yours, with encouragement,
GN

On Oct 9 Sarah Goldberg Bakst wrote:

Dear Professor Nagy,

This suddenly occurred to me, and I was so excited that I almost ran back to Emerson 105.

As I was reading the Iliad, I noticed that an action often occurs three times, for example, in Rhapsody XI line 461, "Thrice did he cry as loudly as man can cry, and thrice did brave Menelaos hear him," or in Rhapsody XXII line 250, "Three times have I fled round the mighty city of Priam, without daring to withstand you, but now, let me eigther slay or be slain, for I am in the mind to face you." This popped out at me because I remembered Vergil's lines about Aeneas trying to grasp the umbra of Creusa: "Ter conatus ibi collo dare bracchia circum;/ ter frustra comprensa manus effugit imago/ par levibus ventis volucrique simillima somno." (II.792-794). All of this seemed to resonate with the opera's portrayal of the diva and evildoer in three different ways. I thought it might be a little far-fetched, but at the same time it feels that there must be something to this: is it simply a coincidence, or is there meaning in the number three? Did the Greeks feel the need to express themselves multiple times in order to cover all of their emotions? Is it simply the idea of reinforcement by repetition, such as in the repeated comparison of Achilles to the lion?

--Sarah Bakst

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Sarah,

I like your question. It opens many doors. I think it would give confidence to many of your fellow students if you let us publish, via Mark our webmaster, the essence of this exchange.

Here is the way you could write an essay about your observation.

1) Postpone writing your first paragraph until you develop your argument.

2) Develop your argument by pursuing your observation that things seem to come in threes in the opera we just saw as well as in some passages of your assigned readings.

3) Describe, say, one shared feature of the things you compare. For example, one tries to get something right three times, and then one gets it right the fourth time. That could shape up as your argument. I think that's what you are saying already, no?

4) The trick would be to show that there is some kind of completion or fulfillment when the fourth time comes around - and that it happens in both of the cases you are comparing.

5) Once you have thought things through, then go ahead and write your first paragraph.

Sound like a good plan?

Best regards,
GN

On Oct 3 Naila Ramji wrote:

My name is Naila and I am a senior studying the history of science and am in your Greek Heroes class. I wanted to tell you that I was in Turkey for 2 months this summer, and I actually visited Troy -the site of 9 cities -and took lots of photos as well as kept a photo log saying what each photo was (including very old 'piles of rocks' that were fortress walls dating back to thousands of years BCE and the spot where the tour guide was telling us that archaeologists believe that if it was not just legend (or even if it was, they have figured this out somehow) where Achilles would have killed Hector...) -anyway, just thought you might be interested in them! Please let me know if you would like me to send them to you if you want them up on your website or want to show them if and when relevant during one of your lectures!

Hope you're doing well!
Best,
Naila

[Click here to see the pictures]

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Naila,

What a great idea. I would love to see the pictures, and I think it's a great idea to publish them on the Heroes website.

Here is another idea... Maybe you and I can have an exchange about a research project of mine. It concerns the plain of the river Scamander and the tumuli on the ridge of Sigeion. The Aeolians claimed that a big tumulus at the southern end of the ridge was the tomb of Achilles, whereas the people of Sigeion claimed that the tomb of Achilles was a big tumulus at the northern end of the same ridge. Interested? Maybe you have pictures of one or both of these tumuli.

Best regards,
GN

On Oct 3 Amit Kumar wrote:

Professor Nagy/Sally,

I'm writing to let you know (and to remind you, Sally--I didn't forget) about a play taking place at the end of this semester that I am helping produce. I mentioned it in section and Sally thought it would be a good thing to let the rest of the class know about.
On January 10th, 11th, and 12th in the Aggasiz Theatre, we will be putting on a production of Jean Giraudoux's "The Trojan War Will Not Take Place." The Trojan War Will Not Take Place is a play written in 1935 about Europe (and France in particular) sliding inevitably towards World War II, but just so happens to take place in Troy in the final hours before the start of the Trojan War. It revolves around the frantic (and doomed) actions Hector and Andromache take to stop the Trojan War from happening. The title is tragic; as we all know, the Trojan War does in fact take place.

This particular production will be updated to somewhat reflect what is happening in modern America; in this sense, the play and its themes are more relevant than ever. It dwells on themes of fate, free will, and inevitability, and features characters we are currently reading about--Cassandra, Odysseus, Ajax, Helen, and others (as well as a Rainbow Goddess, Peace, and a drunk Geometry Professor).

Part of the reason I decided to take Greek Heroes was to learn more about the characters in this play. I think a greater understanding of the characters in The Iliad will make the production all the better. In a similar vein, I think everyone else in the class might be interested to see the characters in a new context and will appreciate the play while looking at it through the lens of the Homeric epic. Like many things in our class, the play alternates between the comic, the tragic, and the bizarre as it winds its way to its inescapable conclusion. I hope you--and the rest of the class--will come join in on the fun.

Best,
Amit

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Amit and hi to Sally,

I am very interested. The theme of the doomed couple, Hector and Andromache, resonated already for Sappho. That is what that fragment (F 44) that we read in class is all about. So I find myself very much engaged with the theme of Jean Giraudoux's "The Trojan War Will Not Take Place." I am asking Mark Tomasko, who is the webmaster for the Heroes course, to work with you in publicizing the event for our community.

Best regards,
GN

On Oct 2 Tracy Meng wrote:

Dear Professor Nagy,

It was really great talking with you after class on Tuesday! I brought up Stabat Mater to you after class because I thought of it as we discussed the lamenting mother - pietà, etc. In high school, my choir sang a version of Stabat Mater by the composer Frank Ferko, who assembled Biblical pieces with Greek works such as Adromache's Lament (!!!), along with modern day works of poetry and haiku (ie. mother losing a child to AIDS).

It's really a magnificent work of art displaying the love and despair of a mourning mother in various contexts, and I have asked my mother mail me the full CD. But in the meantime, you can get snippets of the album through the following links:
http://www.cedillerecords.org/051.html (plays one of my favorite movements: #11 "The Mother")
http://www.musicabona.com/catalog/CDR90000051.html.en (plays "Andromache's Lament," a dissonant, disturbing, and extremely poignant piece)

Stabat Mater was a huge challenge for a high school-level choir to perform, but I remember feeling chills and being on the verge of tears during one of the movements with the lyrics "Quae maerebat." I'm really excited that you introduced the pieta concept and reminded me of Stabat Mater yesterday. Though I don't think I can perform these songs in the front of Emerson 105, I'd be thrilled if you shared the music with the class either in lecture or via the website multimedia page. I should receive the CD in the mail soon.

Looking forward to tomorrow's lecture!
Take care,
Tracy Meng

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Tracy,

I am so happy that we talked about this interesting subject, to which I had referred short-hand in class yesterday (in the context of the lament of Thetis over the fate of her son Achilles) as "the pietà" (after Michelangelo's famous sculpture, the Pietà). I hope you will allow me to share this exchange with the other students. If you agree, we can ask our webmaster, Mark, to publish it on our Heroes website.

Best regards,
GN
p.s.: I will still try to persuade you to sing parts of the Stabat Mater to the class.

On Oct 2 Brett Harrison wrote:

Hey Professor Nagy,

I have a quick question regarding Homeric warrior nomenclature. Homer mentions tons of names throughout his epics, and usually they are all distinct. But in the Iliad, there are two significant figures with the name of Ajax. Is there literary significance to this duality, or are the two Ajax characters based on two actual figures in Greek history with the same name?

Thanks and take care,
-Brett Harrison

Professor Nagy replied:

Dear Brett,

Great question about Aias / Aiante (or, in more latinized terms, Ajax and the two Ajaxes)!

In Homeric diction (which is the way Homerists refer to the formulaic system of Homeric poetry), Aiante used to mean 'Ajax and the other one', where the other one is his bastard brother Teukros. In later phases of Homeric diction (this medium was evolving for centuries before it became the fixed text that we know), it was understood as Ajax (son of Telamon) and Ajax (son of Oileus). I discuss this pattern in a book entitled Homer's Text and Language.

You can see places in the macronarrative where the earlier and the later meanings of Aiante almost collide.
A more famous (for us) example of this kind of pattern is the Latin expression Castores, which means 'Castor and his twin brother (Pollux)' not 'Castor and Castor'.

Similarly in French, nous deux Paul means ‘I and Paul’ = ‘the two of us, one of whom is Paul’, not ‘I and you (or he / she / it) and Paul’.

Best regards,
GN